To: Tim Steadham <tstead@ntirs.org>
From: "Russell D. Hoffman" <rhoffman@animatedsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: Can 1 pound of Pu cause cancer to the entire world? (+ comments on digitalis and doapmine)
In-Reply-To: <20010711131653.93027.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20010710144411.009bcc10@mail.adnc.com>
Dear Mr. Steadham,
Thank you for your followup email (shown below).
Digitalis and doapmine are both organic chemicals which break down relatively rapidly in the environment, and which have no known effects are extremely low doses.
Plutonium, on the other hand, only "breaks down" (decays) according strict statistical rules, the rate measured by its "half-life", and there is very little that can be done to slow down or to accelerate its decay, short of exploding a nuclear device.
Digitalis and doapmine are made in vastly smaller quantities than Plutonium. They have known benefits for humans.
But anyway, that is getting off the subject. More to the point, if you still think one pound of Plutonium is way too little to kill everyone on Earth because, according to you (and no one else I know of), it would only kill 12 people at most, then how much would you say would be needed for this diabolical act of killing everyone with Plutonium? I mean, 10 pounds? 100 pounds? 250,000 tons?
What quantity, in your opinion, is a lethal dose of plutonium 238?
And lastly, you mathematically subtracted out for the fact that not everyone dies when given a small dose of Plutonium at least twice. Have you corrected for that error yet in your thinking and your calculations? (Then after that, you subtract out for the fact that 1/4 to 1/3 of the population will get cancer anyway, another inappropriate miscalculation on your part.)
Sincerely,
Russell Hoffman
Carlsbad, CA
Attachments: Info on digitalis and doapmine, your email to me:
===============================================================
From:
http://members.aol.com/cdigitalis/
"DIGITALIS is a drug prepared from the seeds and leaves of the foxglove and is used as a cardiac stimulant."
(Digitalis is also a rock band (I'd never heard of them until today when I did a search on Alta Vista), and that's their web site, but they seem to know where their name came from.)
From:
http://www.gardenguides.com/flowers/perinnials/digitalis.htm
"The individual flowers [of Foxglove] are about the size and shape of a thimble. In fact, the Latin name digitalis comes from the Latin word digitanus which means finger. This is because the blossoms fit the human finger almost perfectly. Inside each flower is a large white area that is covered with deep burgundy or brown spots. The flowers and leaves contain highly toxic alkaloids and should never be put in the mouth. Digitalis is grown commercially as a source of the heart drugs digoxin and digitoxin."
[[[ There is no warning about handling foxglove anywhere that I can find at the web site. -- rdh ]]]
From:
http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Chemistry/MOTM/digitalis/digtal1.htm
"Digitalis is an example of a cardio-active or cardiotonic drug, in other words a steroid which has the ability to exert a specific and powerful action on the cardiac muscle in animals, and has been used in the treatment of heart conditions ever since its discovery in 1775." [[[ It adds that the "discoverer" actually got the idea from a gypsy who cured one of the Doctor's patients whom he could not cure, with a potion which included foxglove extract. -- rdh ]]]
From:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=30928&tocid=0
"[Digitalis is a] substance obtained from the dried leaves of the common foxglove (Digitalis purpurea) . . . The active principles in digitalis belong to a group of steroids called the cardiac glycosides. Their dosage must be determined with exceptional care because the lethal dose may be only three times the effective dose."
[[[ I'm not saying organic compounds in the environment aren't a danger -- they certainly are -- but I certainly believe plutonium, a bone-seeking, extremely carcinogenic element that masquerades as a harmless metal, is a vastly greater danger when lose in the environment. -- rdh ]]]
===============================================================
Doapmine was much harder to come up with information on:
From:
http://www.peds.umn.edu/divisions/pccm/teaching/acp/poison.html
Under the category: "Toxic Syndromes: These are constellations of syndromes which are indicative of certain ingestions" is this reference to doapmine:
"Sympathomimetics (doapmine, phenylephrine, tyramine, ephedrine)
· CNS: agitated, psychoses, hallucinations, delirium, seizures, dilated pupils
· CV: tachycardia, dysrhythmias, severe hypertension
· GI: nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain
· other: fever, sweating "
From the bibliography at:
http://www.hms.harvard.edu/dms/neuroscience/fac_konradi.html
"Cole RE, Konardi C, Douglas J, Hyman SE (1995) Neuronal adaptation to amphetamine and doapmine: molecular mechanims of prodynorphin gene regulation in rat striatum. Neuron 14:1-20."
===============================================================
At 06:16 AM 7/11/01 , you wrote:
I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of
receiving all these 4 DVD's for 49 cents deals in my
inbox...
Just thought I'd interject a little light humor in our
correspondance.
As a sidenote, do you know that just a few mg of
digitalis can be lethal? The average dose is 0.0125
mg and it is a calcium channel blocker. At small
doseages, it will cause sudden cardiac arrest.
Doapmine is given in micrograms/kg/hr doses and has
direct effects on the body with the dose received.
Again, very small quantities of the stuff could
potentially kill you quickly. There are that many
other drugs could do the same (I'm a paramedic, not an
MD) but lets just leave it at these two for the sake
of discussion.
What is my point? My point is that there are many,
many other substances in our environment that can kill
you much quicker in smaller quantities than Pu
requries. I do not doubt that Pu is dangerous if
inhaled (in sufficient quantities), I do doubt that 1
pound is far from enough to give every person on Earth
lung cancer no matter how you realistically distribute
it.
Tim
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